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welcome to the all podcast we're the Academy of logic and light I'm Megan I'm Kat I'm Julie we are an ethical Community Education platform that provides a safe space for people to practice their spirituality without indoctrination so we talk a lot about starting an ethical Academy so let's have a conversation about what ethics mean in our practice and in general I suppose Julie turn the time over you two times well then you should be this I know damn it I knew we were going to say my name too and I was like no no the cat answer your own question right now uh ethics for me is a moral what's this word this this and this the beginning and the end you know like um what is the word like a personal standard of like morals um but I also think it can be kind of gray because it's there's the black and the white but it's situational so yeah I don't know it makes it really difficult to talk about the personal standard of rules that you apply your moral code to does that sound right okay the right words yeah but I guess it could look different for anyone so then I'm like okay well what are the moral standards of like a rapist right like they have them so then as everyone just going around by their own moral standards as it apply is there a standard set of morals that we all know based from on what what's good what's bad yeah I think that's what makes it tricky and I think that's why a lot of things lack an ethical space or a backbone of Ethics is because it can become so fuzzy yeah like a lot of people lean their ethics or their moral code into their religion and then they'll be like atheists don't have morality which is so which is ridiculous the opposite yeah I mean I guess for me in kind of just the simplest way ethics are just are you a good person are you helpful are you kind are you doing what you can to help other people to be supportive or are you dragging everything down are you hard to be around um in a very broad base way are you doing something where other people are like hmm yeah yeah see I have a strong feeling that like I I think everyone and this is where it gets really hard though because when you look at morality I think that there's a lot of corruption around people trying to enforce their own morality on other people and that to me is a a huge issue and I really think that again in my vision that ethic ethics and morality kind of is like you do what you want and we let people do what they want until it starts to have an effect on another person and if that other person isn't like consenting to whatever that effect is then that's the breach of the ethics for me because we should just you know you should be able to pick whatever path you want but once that starts encroaching on other people's freedoms that's where I start to draw a line but then it brings up the next good point of that person needs to know what their boundaries are to know that their morality Clause has been breached and a lot of people don't know what their boundaries even are yeah so they don't know until afterwards usually they're like oh that was icky or that didn't make me feel right or something and then they usually drop it or they Gaslight themselves yeah yeah which is problematic but yeah yeah it's a tricky subject yes yeah well and I think that's why it's important to have an ethical space for people to come into because we're we're trying to help create not create the boundaries but like provide a space that has boundaries and then from there you can explore whatever amount you want but you kind of have that starting space of zero of like here's your safety net you can start here and then from there you can decide what you want to dip into and what you are interested in instead of saying oh we're going to breach your boundaries and that's how you're going to find them instead we're going to say let's give you boundaries and then you can reach out of them and start to feel for yourself what feels right and what doesn't yeah in my mind ethics are something that surround an entity and integrity is something that surrounds an individual I like that yeah so if an individual has Integrity in my mind they don't have an issue with the ethics of a company person you know like if the company has good ethics right are you inclusive are you diverse are you welcoming um do you hold people accountable when they step out of the bounds all those types of things and I think that starts with individual integrity and I suppose that also looks different for every individual person when Integrity looks like I remember as a little kid that kind of the thing that I was taught about integrity was would you do something if nobody knew you were doing it if if you were you knew you were going to get in trouble if you if somebody saw you do it would you do it if no one was looking and that's a hard hard thing to be like you know like nobody's in the room should I take this candy bar I was literally just singing that's how I eat cake this reminds me a lot of kind of the shopping cart problem if you've ever heard that of like yeah would you return a shopping cart you know do you return the shopping cart if you don't return your shopping carts and that's on it yeah well because it's just like a bad person it's a simple thing to do it's a slight inconvenience for you but it's gonna make the next person's life the people that work there are gonna it's gonna be easier for everyone other than you and it's not even a huge inconvenience like and do you return the shopping cart when you're done shopping or do you just leave it in the parking spot you know and that I is always so telling because you know that's the one thing like No One's Gonna Come and Get get you in trouble for not returning your shopping cart I I have seen some people approach people but we should start doing that more often not a part of a collective Society um the other question is um what are your fail safes in choosing a practitioner for you spiritual practitioner for yourself that one I think is hard for me because I I really just go off of like kind of that instinctual feeling that I get from yeah from talking with somebody do they make me feel comfortable and safe and are the way that they talk about their practice and the way that everything's you know going to occur are they disclosing the information to me are they making me feel like I understand what's happening before I go into it or are they just saying oh by the way like you know am I just going into it and then being like oh I didn't know that you were just gonna read from the tarot book when I came into this tarot reading you know and so I feel like when people disclose like oh hey I'm still practicing like I'm gonna give you my opinion but I might refer to this like that to me makes me feel so much more comfortable than going into something and then being like Oh I didn't realize this was a Hands-On thing like you didn't consent with me that we were gonna do Hands-On you know even though it might be a given in some instances like I the people who just kind of say okay are you fine if I touch you or would you like me to like hover and like those kinds of just Little check-ins with me make me feel comfortable with somebody and as I've gotten to know more people and had more experiences I've I've been able to watch better for like oh who's disclosing up front the expectations and who's just saying yeah sure come and then I feel lost you know yeah I think for me a big part of it is if somebody that I know and trust has used this practitioner and recommended them that's a huge green flag um also transparency like Megan was saying is huge uh making sure that they are being up from and honest about where they are in their practice and how they practice super important another green flag I look for is how how long they've been practicing and um if they are more underground I kind of think that's I mean it depends on what the modality is because some modalities are just naturally going to be more underground just because of the nature that we work in um but sometimes I feel like that can be a little bit of a red flag because why why aren't you promoting yourself or why aren't you out in the world are you hiding from someone like there's something you don't want them to know what you're doing that means you're not really fully living authentically to me yeah and so then I kind of am like oh that's not necessarily a red flag but it makes me get like it makes me question it makes sense um and then yeah just a huge I mean a big big part of it is learning your own discernment in a practitioner and what feels good to you what vibe feels good and I think that's also why it's so important to have so many different people practicing different modalities because not everybody's going to Vibe with everybody and that doesn't mean that they're bad at what they do or whatever it just means they're great for somebody else not great for me I agree some people are a little like brutally honest like practitioners and I'm like okay well maybe like I could come here on Mondays when I'm more emotionally stable for this advice you know or like okay I need like a little softer Vibe today you can like yeah choose the vibe yeah yeah yeah yeah okay so what are some of your fail safes as a practitioner to stay ethical oh that's a good one I like to front load people with a lot of information I think sometimes it's probably too much information but I would rather have somebody come in and be like okay I get it then the opposite oh I'm totally surprised by this yeah um I also like to be upfront about again like my level of education and where that came from um so that if people have questions I typically always like to do a consult conversation even if it's just like 10 minutes over the phone so that I know what they're looking for and I can tell them more about what my practice is and what I do to make sure that it's going to be a good fit for both of us before they show up and I show up and then we both wasted time to get into a space of like oh this isn't exactly what they were looking for um or something because I've had that happen where people don't really understand exactly what it is that I do and they're like Oh I thought you did this thing and I'm like no and then we're like well now what yeah okay like do I still like I don't want to charge you right but also like I just took all my time to set up the room and be in this space and you know I think a lot of that's just live and learn kind of stuff but yeah um and then a lot of it for me also is surrounded by grounding I feel like when I'm grounded I'm more connected and it's easier for me to be able to stay um within boundaries and read boundaries um a lot better than what I'm like chaotic and kind of all over the place yeah that's a good one yeah I feel like for me um because I like reading cards and I usually try to not read cards for someone who hasn't given me permission to read their cards so you know if someone were to come with me with a query and they're like oh can you tell me is my husband cheating on me like I'm not gonna read that like let me read how your relationship is like from your like Center and like if it's gonna be if it's benefiting you or if there might be something that you need to address with him but I'm not going to like try to get into that energy because one like I haven't been given permission to do that but two like that's an energy that I'm not I can't tap into like I don't want to give you all this advice about your husband and then be like totally tapped into the wrong spot or like I'm just kind of guessing because I have no idea what's really out there for him and without you know someone's permission there's a good chance that their guides aren't going to disclose information or you know really open up and so trying to read for somebody that that anyway that's one way that I really try and then I also feel like just making sure that I'm holding space for people really helps so just kind of letting them have whatever reaction they're going to have and and really just making space for that be like yeah okay like you know feel those feelings and um let me help you to address them because I can give someone news that you know I'm just like here here's what the cards say like oh yeah this is gonna feel like a pimple popping type of energy right now and they might have a really like big reaction to that and I feel like holding that space for them to have those big reactions um can really help because I feel especially with like tarot and like those quick kind of you know okay come sit down let me just give you a quick like one card reading or pick a card I feel like it's so easy to discount the other person's like reaction to it and you're not really holding the space for them you're just like having a quick communication conversation and then you're like okay bye like where I want to make myself available to have that conversation oh okay like this happened well do you want to like get that off your chest or do you want me to pull another card for guidance like what can I do to help you kind of feel like you're moving forward I don't want to make you feel like you're leave you hanging after this or make you feel overwhelmed with you know I pulled the tower card okay good luck have a great day no I'm gonna tell you what that means and that it's not always the worst thing to happen especially the death guard or the tower yeah yeah so that's I and I feel like most practitioners do that but there are some you know specifically in like those kind of quick like at a fair let me just do this thing real fast that kind of missed the the actually giving the other person the exchange of energy instead of just being like Oh yeah here I have this conversation this is what the conversation was good luck I think that's I really love that you brought that up because I think that is one of the most unethical things that can happen is when people walk up to another person and this happens all the time on social media I don't know if you guys get these DMS oh my God I saw your I came across your page and I saw your energy let me give you a reading we get into the school one yeah yeah we do I'm like you don't get to tap into my energy without my consent hear him come to me and say hey I'm I'm get like I feel your Vibe you seem cool I have this ability do you mind if I tap into your energy really exactly that is a hundred times different than somebody walking up to you and being like Oh I know this this and this and you're like no get out of my you know obviously I think some of us have better walls up than others but the fact that people who feel comfortable behaving in that way it really really gives the whole all these practices a bad name oh my gosh for sure like I have a really good example for this um this practitioner I met her through an energy exchange hired her for something like in a whole different state and then um become friends and all this stuff and I guess the boundaries get a little bit different when you're friends versus practitioner and one day she just called me up and she was like oh my gosh I just have to tell you your man is not for you I'm so sorry and like I've been with him for like years she's like I'm so sorry but do you want to go dancing tonight I was like so like years later she contacted me again with another message out of out of nowhere and she was like I'm sorry you didn't like the last message I was like it wasn't the message like I've gotten that message quite a few times actually I already knew but it was your delivery and she goes oh sometimes there's no filter for the channeling and I was like that's not true that's not true at all yeah you're you're in control of your body you're making it seem like the Holy Spirit has control of your tongue or something you know what I mean like you have a ton of me take responsibility for your actions that's not how you deliver a message and you definitely don't just be like you want to go dancing afterwards right yeah and it says a lot about the boundaries of the practitioner it's not even just about the person that's being approached that is having their boundaries crossed as a practitioner especially if you're a reader you should have a boundary that you are not tapping into anybody's energy before you have that consent period that is draining on yourself as a practitioner you're just out they're spreading it around to everybody like have some I don't have into any client's energy until about 10-15 minutes before when I'm already setting the intention for my space and like setting I fix myself and then as I'm sitting in the room I'm like okay here we are preparing calling in my own guides all right now I'm inviting your guides to come they don't have to show up but like yeah you know here it is and then we don't even do that until like 10 minutes before and then afterwards we cut all of that off so I don't continue doing the work for you right and you don't feel my stuff and that's the most responsible way we can do this yeah yeah totally yeah I have a crazy story yes so my husband has a my husband has a friend who uh his wife started talking to someone at a crystal shop and this individual kept like came over to help them grid their house and he came over to grid the house and then when he did he said there's a there's a dark portal in this room and it was her husband's office and that's my my husband's friend and he's like there's a dark portal in this room it's like it's straight to the devil like all of this stuff like there's dark energy this is why you're having all of these issues is because of whoever like this space and so they like grit it around it but it ended their marriage because it just kind of slowly built on all this stuff and you know who knows what thought she might have been having before but then someone comes into your home and tells you that like and then he has since like he spends time with her with the kids and I think he has like three or four kids who all won't even speak to him because he's a dark portal yeah because he's a dark portal he's the reason that everything bad happened in their lives and yeah and and so I have no idea yeah and it just is like but the practitioners still like heavily involved in their life and like is all the time with the kids and the mom and all the stuff it's super super weird and who knows like what the reasoning behind it is but it just oh my gosh yeah it just is like I don't know that's kind of where I was talking about like you're trying to tap into someone else's energy like maybe it's a dark hole because that person has good boundaries and they're like no I don't want anybody like coming into my space that's not invited and so you walk into that space and you're like this is a weird energy but it's because it's try to be protected from you and so it could be that whoever the previous owner was yeah it could be so many things yeah yeah and it just implies so much when you start talking about stuff like that that's one of my fail safes is when I do have a message and it's not often I I don't try the channel for people it's really not my favorite activity because it's not fun but if I have a message that comes in for someone I usually I'm like is this advice something that I would give to most humans like drink more water yeah you know what I mean like super simple stuff but like I don't know I wouldn't just be giving any like crazy life advice because then I'd have to do my own Security checks yeah that's yeah crazy and I think that brings up another point I think that a lot of people in my experience want to view themselves as something that they can do something that no one else can do that they're very gifted or talented um which is fine I mean a lot of these practices do take a lot of um work and a lot of practice and there are people on different levels not to say I believe that everybody has access to all of this it just takes practice Yeah it's an exercise their muscles all of it yeah spiritual muscles yeah but I think that people and it sounds like that person may have been one of these people want to be like only I can do this for you instead of like if that were me in my situation because I grid people's houses and love grading yeah I would say and I felt a certain way I would say um I there's things going on in this house that could be from the previous owner I'm gonna recommend that you have this person come and do a house clearing for you they're better skilled at it than I am and then I'm happy to come back and grid it for you and your energy like a lot of people don't know to start a new house on a clean slate right like walls hold energy ground holds energy and when you buy a new house if somebody else has lived there before sometimes it stays yeah and so if you don't know how to clean that then yeah that's so sad but that's something that comes back to gatekeeping if you're the only person that can do all the things for one person sus yeah like yeah there's not a competition like I know for facts like I want to recommend everyone for tarot for you like everyone yeah like every you can have your pot of people to recommend things for and can I do some of it sure but is there better equipped people for it well absolutely yes absolutely yeah I'd rather you go to a way more qualified person for that than yeah but I think that's a really good way to like see ethically if who you're picking right but also a moral code for yourself absolutely yeah thanks for joining the all podcast to find out more you can find us online at Academy of logicandlight.org or on Facebook YouTube Instagram and Tick Tock at Academy of logic and light if you live in the Salt Lake Valley we'd love to see you at one of our upcoming events and don't forget to support our growth by joining our patreon 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